Interbeing: An Interview with Gerui Grace Ma, Part II

Gerui Grace Ma is in her second year in Pacifica’s M.A. Depth Psychology and Creativity with Emphasis in the Arts and Humanities program. I’m excited to hear about her work in Beijing, including “Interbeing,” and her experience at Pacifica in this two part interview. The M.A. Depth Psychology and Creativity with Emphasis in the Arts and Humanities program is now accepting applications for Fall 2025.

Angela: I understand that you are currently working with collaborators in Beijing on a community project that “combines Jungian arts-based research with Taoist and Buddhist philosophies, music, and movement,” called “Interbeing.” Can you tell us a little about how Interbeing came to be, and how it incorporates Jungian thought?

Grace: “Interbeing” is a collaborative project that I became involved with through our studio. I first learned about Interbeing when the project initiator Myra approached me to discuss the concept. We began brainstorming ideas and, in the early stages, we recruited people without knowing exactly what the project would become, as we had no external funding. What unfolded was truly magical. We gathered a diverse group of people who were enthusiastic and willing to contribute their talents to the project. Several organizations are currently working together on it. Primarily, I’ve been providing scholarly support and composing the dance music for the project. In this community, I introduced dancers to some basic Jungian psychological ideas and how to inspire their creativity, and introduced Dr Rowland’s JABR framework in the process of music and dance creation.

The dancers have been the heart of the initiative, dedicating the most time and energy. The dancers received a four-month training program with different teachers that focused on somatic practices and eco-spiritual art or theories. Their training process was as much a spiritual and healing journey as it was a physical one. Fortunately, the dance was invited to perform for CCC in Chengdu, a forum dedicated to organizations advocating for more collaborative, evolutionary models. Interbeing has been invited to open the event, which is a beautiful recognition of the work’s potential to inspire meaningful change.

Angela: You’ve written that “The purpose of Interbeing is to awaken its participants’ compassion and aesthetic sensibility towards nature.” Why are compassion and nature the two themes that were chosen? Is it your experience that these things can be hard to find in a big city like Beijing or is this something you see a need for worldwide?

Grace: In our mindfulness system, we believe that our current era is dominated by left-brain functions—things like analysis and rational thought—which often lead to a kind of self-absorption. What’s missing, however, is the right-brain awareness that fosters empathy, connection, and an understanding of the interconnectedness of all things.
Interbeing was conceived as a healing initiative because the body itself is naturally attuned to the right hemisphere—our intuitive, relational, and empathetic side. Through body movements and the supportive energy of community, we have the potential to expand our sense of “self” beyond the isolated “I.”

This expansion of consciousness allows us to connect more deeply with each other and with nature. In big cities like Beijing, it’s easy to become disconnected from the natural world and from the sense of collective care. However, this disconnection is not unique to any one place—it’s a global issue. Many people are searching for an alternative way of experiencing the world, one that is more embodied, experiential, and transcendental. Body work, community engagement, relationships, and experiences in nature can all serve as pathways to this deeper understanding, which, in turn, helps cultivate compassion and a greater sensitivity toward our environment.

Angela: How would you describe the evolution of your own relationship with nature?

Grace: My relationship with nature has evolved in two distinct stages. Initially, I didn’t consider that humans could have a genuine, reciprocal relationship with nature. I was influenced by the mindset that views nature primarily as a resource to be exploited, which was the prevailing attitude in the world.

My thoughts changed when I began reading Thích Nhất Hạnh, a Zen monk and environmentalist who introduced me to the Buddhist concept of “Interbeing”. When people asked him what they could do to help save the planet, he replied that we should listen to the Earth’s cry within our own hearts. That deeply touched me. He reminded me of the interconnectedness between the two, and that connection is something I felt on a much deeper level.

This shift in perspective led me to explore more artistic expressions, because I came to understand that this connection couldn’t be fully conveyed through language alone—it had to be felt and experienced. I was so drawn to the concept of Interbeing, and several of my creative projects have emerged from this approach.

Healing the relationship between human beings and nature is only one aspect of healing the deeper split between “self” and “other”, but I see it as a particularly powerful one. I’ve witnessed this transformation in people countless times. I’ve seen their bodies soften, their emotional walls dissolve, and even witnessed tears as they experience this connection to the earth through movement and dance. It’s truly magical and has deepened my understanding of the theories of depth psychology, especially how we can reconnect with the personal and the collective, becoming whole rather than “perfect”.

Angela: This is your second year in the humanities program, what are you most looking forward to? And have you begun to form any ideas on what your dissertation project focus on?

Grace: This year I want to put more focus on my creative works and give life to theoretical gaining. In the Interbeing dance project I composed a 21-minute music which has ignited my eagerness to music creation. So my next year may really put a lot emphasis on composing mindfulness music. The final thesis topic is something I’ve been thinking about for a while but haven’t come to a conclusion on. I can only tell it may be similar to Interbeing but more matured. Our team in Metaxy studio is also planning on a documentary project in China to interview a variety of people who are not only spiritual but are artists, scholars who are interested in topics such as consciousness and paradigm shifts. We’re hoping this documentary will give the audience a way to see what is going on spiritually in China and how it has shifted in the last two decades. I also hope to see more international collaborations in these projects moving forward. For example, for Interbeing’s music, I invited my classmate, violinist Rebecca Sabine to play the violin, bringing a new layer of depth to the composition. These kinds of collaborations are crucial because they help bridge cultural and artistic divides. I believe through these collective efforts, we can foster a greater sense of understanding and connection in the world, ultimately contributing to a more compassionate global community. If anyone reading this interview is interested in collaborating, please feel free to reach out to me at metaxy.studio@outlook.com

Angela: Thank you so much for speaking with me today and best of luck with your studies at Pacifica and with Interbeing!

Part I of this interview is here.

The M.A. Depth Psychology and Creativity with Emphasis in the Arts and Humanities program is now accepting applications for Fall 2025. For more information, please visit us here.

Grace Ma is the Co-founder of Metaxy Studio Beijing, an advocate of Buddhist philosophy and a mindfulness and creativity facilitator. A transdisciplinary artist crafting mindfulness music, visual art, and poetry. China’s first master’s student in Depth Psychology and Creativity at Pacifica Graduate Institute, with a B.A. in Informatics specializing in New Media Design from Sweden. Honored by the Swedish Ministry for Foreign Affairs in 2020 for outstanding achievements in social innovation and entrepreneurship.

Interbeing Music Credits:
Lyrics taken from the Sanskrit Heart Sutra
Composer/Chanting/Gu-Zheng: Grace Ma
Arranger/Adaptor/Vocal Recording and Mixing Engineer: Minmin Yan
Violin: Rebecca Sabine
Violin Recording Engineer: Aaron Ramsey
Erhu: Ziwei Liu
Music Production: Fente Music Studio Beijing
Media campaign: Zhiyi Zhou
Planning: Metaxy Studio Beijing (Grace Ma & Guang Yang)

Angela_1

Angela Borda is a writer for Pacifica Graduate Institute, as well as the editor of the Santa Barbara Literary Journal. Her work has been published in Food & Home, Peregrine, Hurricanes & Swan Songs, Delirium Corridor, Still Arts Quarterly, Danse Macabre, and is forthcoming in The Tertiary Lodger and Running Wild Anthology of Stories, Vol. 5.